The big "Dusit" update 2023

Automatisch transkribiert mit AssemblyAI, Sprecher automatisch zugeordnet. Nicht redigiert.

1. 00:03
   Ronald M. Arndt

   Welcome on the Hotel Podcast. It's a big pleasure having you here. We are in Munich. Yeah, it's the first time for you? No, in Munich?

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2. 00:14
   Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

   No, not the first time for me. First time for him.

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3. 00:16
   Ronald M. Arndt

   Okay. Yeah, first time for David.

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4. 00:18
   Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

   Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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5. 00:19
   Ronald M. Arndt

   Not the first time for Champ.

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6. 00:20
   Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

   And then straight to Oktoberfest.

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7. 00:22
   Ronald M. Arndt

   Ah, okay. So you've been here for more than only for the Exporeal?

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8. 00:26
   Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

   Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, okay, it's our first time as a company.

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9. 00:29
   Ronald M. Arndt

   Okay.

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10. 00:29
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, but I've just been to Munich like 20 times before.

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11. 00:33
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Okay, okay. You started in UK, huh? I did, yeah. So from UK, I imagine that you went to the Oktoberfest as well, huh?

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12. 00:38
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    No, it's also my first time.

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13. 00:40
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Okay.

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14. 00:40
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    It's crazy, like 20 times in Munich, first time Oktoberfest.

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15. 00:43
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Yeah.

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16. 00:44
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    First time in Germany, then straight to Oktoberfest.

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17. 00:46
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Okay, okay, okay, okay, nice. So we are at the Expo Real. It's the 3rd day, last day. I'm really looking forward to meet you and your company, Dusit, of course. I think we found the quietest place here. Perhaps there's some noise around, but we give our best.

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18. 01:09
    David (Dusit)

    Yeah.

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19. 01:10
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Tell us a little bit about you. I call you Champ, it's easier. Or perhaps you start, tell us your full name.

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20. 01:15
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, okay.

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21. 01:17
    Ronald M. Arndt

    So that I don't embarrass myself.

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22. 01:19
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    It's a crazy full name because, you know, we Thais, we have very long names.

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23. 01:22
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Especially for me as a German, it's a crazy full name.

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24. 01:24
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, exactly.

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25. 01:24
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Not for you, but—

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26. 01:25
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, well, I mean, even for us it's also quite crazy.

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27. 01:27
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Okay.

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28. 01:27
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, so I mean, my full name is Siradej Donavanik. Is there a meaning behind it?

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29. 01:33
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Pardon? Is there a meaning?

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30. 01:34
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    No, no, no, no, no, no. It's just like, I mean, our name's actually like, you know, Thai is actually come from Sanskrit.

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31. 01:39
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Okay.

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32. 01:40
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    So it's this ancient language and it's always—

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33. 01:42
    Ronald M. Arndt

    everything is so long. Okay.

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34. 01:43
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    You can call me Champ, that's my nickname.

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35. 01:44
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Yeah, I call you Champ.

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36. 01:45
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, so I'm a 3rd generation hotelier. You know, we, you know, like actually the company was founded by my grandmother, this company called Dusit, Dusit International now. And yeah, we've been in business for the last 70 years.

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37. 02:01
    Ronald M. Arndt

    70 years? Great.

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38. 02:03
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, so, you know, quite a long time. And yeah, I mean, currently we have about 60 hotels in our portfolio. We have about 65 hotels in the pipeline that we are developing. So in the next, I say, 2, 3, 4 years, we should be doubling our size of what we have now.

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39. 02:20
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Okay, amazing.

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40. 02:21
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, so the growth has been, you know, has been very, you know, quite expansive. Besides hotels, we also do education as well. So we are very, very much heavily invested in hospitality education. We have hotel schools.

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41. 02:38
    Ronald M. Arndt

    So you call it hospitality education? No, it's education and hospitality. You bring them together?

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42. 02:43
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, I mean, it is education but in the field of hospitality. So hotel management, culinary arts, for example. We have schools, we have colleges in Thailand, but we are basically expanding our curriculum to all over Southeast Asia, for example. Besides that, we also have quite a strong, I would say, food division. So we have a separate subsidiary that focuses on food. So from food manufacturing to catering to food retail, for example. And lastly, we're also into real estate, into real estate developments. So we basically develop our own mixed-use development. We have our own branded Residence. So we do residential developments, office space, retail. So yeah, so we are kind of—

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43. 03:35
    Ronald M. Arndt

    He doesn't stop anymore. So yeah, it seems to be a lot to do. Yeah, it is a lot.

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44. 03:41
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    It is a lot. Yeah, it is quite a mouthful. But yeah, so these are kind of like 4 main, I would say, tracks of our businesses. But everything is very much linked to hospitality. So we are very much a hospitality company. whether it's obviously hotels operation, hotel development, to real estate, to education, to food. We have this kind of synergy amongst them that everything is linked to hospitality.

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45. 04:08
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Nice.

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46. 04:09
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Okay. That's what we know how to do. I think that's basically also one of the best, I would say, elements of our culture, of what I mean as a Thai company, that's what we also have to provide. And I think that's something that we would love to be able to export this to other parts of the world, which is what we have been doing for the last 70 years.

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47. 04:27
    Ronald M. Arndt

    And how did all this start? So that's, I think it's very interesting to know with your grandmother 70 years ago.

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48. 04:34
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    So my grandmother started the company. I mean, she, you know, she was very, very, very lucky that she managed to be able to go to America, to the States. Okay.

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49. 04:43
    Ronald M. Arndt

    As a child or later?

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50. 04:45
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    No, no, no, no. I mean, she got a scholarship to go to America. You know, she actually came from a very, very, you know, like humble background actually. My great-grandparents, her parents were actually farmers. They actually migrated from China to Thailand, which is actually quite normal back in the days. And then she's got a scholarship to go study in the States, and then she went and she saw these amazing hotels in New York, the Waldorf Astoria and all these grand hotels.

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51. 05:14
    Ronald M. Arndt

    These are the hotels I'm dreaming of to record a hotel podcast. But I think from today, it's not only US, it's also Thailand.

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52. 05:22
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    So for her, she was like, you know what, Thailand should have something like So that's why it was really much her dream. So she came back, she started her first hotels. I mean, it was very small. It's called the Princess Hotel. It's actually right on the river. It was actually the first— interesting fact— the first hotel in Thailand with a swimming pool.

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53. 05:46
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Okay.

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54. 05:47
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    And then after that—

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55. 05:49
    Ronald M. Arndt

    But in front of the hotel, not on the top?

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56. 05:51
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    No, I don't think the technology was available back in the days. It would have been too crazy. And then after that, we kind of went on— I mean, she went on to actually develop our flagship, which is actually the Dusit Thani Hotel, right in the heart of Bangkok, opposite Lumpini Park, which is basically where this mixed-use development I was telling you about will be. I mean, that's where it's at, basically. And that basically, it was the tallest building in Thailand back in the late '60s, in the early '70s, really one of the first skyscrapers in the country. And that basically sets out I would guess the new kind of era of tourism in Thailand, basically. So, yeah, a bit of history background.

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57. 06:36
    Ronald M. Arndt

    And then your parents, I imagine, took over one day, or?

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58. 06:39
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, so my dad, my father was the CEO for a very, very, very, very long time. We did a lot of international expansion during that period. And also another interesting fact is that we took over You know, you're, I would say, you know, very, very much famous German company called Kempinski.

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59. 07:05
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Okay.

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60. 07:05
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    So yeah, so we basically bought into Kempinski in the early '90s. We, you know, we held it until the Asian financial crisis. So obviously after that we sold it to the bank, a local bank in Thailand. And then, yeah, so for us, I mean, actually this is not really the first time in Europe.

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61. 07:25
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Yeah, no.

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62. 07:25
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    We've actually been in Europe back in the '90s before, but in a different disguise. But now we really want to bring our Thai brand to Europe.

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63. 07:36
    Ronald M. Arndt

    What does it stand for, your Thai brand? What can we expect?

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64. 07:42
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Well, I mean, okay, so for us—

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65. 07:43
    Ronald M. Arndt

    We jump a little bit, but we come back.

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66. 07:45
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    No, no, no, that's completely fine. So I mean, look, for us, I think we bring something that is actually quite unique into the market. And there's so much, I would say, nuance in terms of the hospitality that we provide. We very much focus a lot on wellness. And I would say, because actually for Thailand, I mean, as a culture, whether we're talking about wellness in terms of the spa or this more holistic wellness, I mean, we have All these different touch points in which we do, right? And it's not just about the physical wellness; it's also you know the mental wellness as well. I mean, we we we actually do quite a lot of initiatives when it comes to you know mindfulness, you know because that's actually also linked to our culture as well, right? With Buddhism and everything. Obviously, you know for us we we don't get into this whole kind of religious thing because I mean it doesn't really matter. But it's really about you know the whole spirituality of how we integrate. integrate wellness into what we do. It's also about food as well. So in Thailand, we also have our own farm. We grow our own organic rice, for example, organic jasmine rice. And this is something that we want to— I would say, obviously, if we basically come to Germany, we have to adapt ourselves to the local culture because we obviously very much respect that. But we just want to see how we can integrate, you know, some of our— I would say what we call the gracious hospitality DNA.

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67. 09:15
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Yeah, exactly.

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68. 09:16
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    You know, like into our service delivery here. That's something that is actually quite important.

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69. 09:20
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Yeah, and what you say is linked to an episode that I recorded a few weeks or even months ago with Ippolito Veitz. So it was also about wellness and coming from Asia over to Europe.

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70. 09:30
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    And yeah, exactly, exactly.

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71. 09:32
    Ronald M. Arndt

    And what is possible over there.

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72. 09:34
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and we, you know, we we focus a lot on customers' experience. We have a whole division inside our corporate office. We call it the CX team, customer experience team.

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73. 09:44
    Ronald M. Arndt

    What are they doing?

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74. 09:45
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    So, I mean, it's just really to—

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75. 09:47
    Ronald M. Arndt

    On every site or?

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76. 09:48
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, exactly. And everywhere, for us, to see how we can basically integrate some of our, like what I mentioned, the service DNA into the new location, but do it in a way that it becomes a collaboration, you know, that's not like, oh yeah, you know, we're stepping on other people's culture or vice versa. But how can we synchronize it in an honest, in a responsible, and a respectful way?

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77. 10:15
    Ronald M. Arndt

    To create a new experience, totally new experience, not bringing them together.

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78. 10:18
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, so actually, so, you know, so we even go as far as, you know, like every hotel that we have, we now have this position in hotel which is actually quite, you know, unique, I think. back in the days, and this position is what we call like the community management, like a community manager. It's really to see how we can basically bring, you know, the wealth of the surrounding, right, of the community also into the hotel.

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79. 10:41
    Ronald M. Arndt

    So surrounding also means other companies, other people living there in neighborhoods?

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80. 10:47
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, whether it's food, whether we can do like, you know, collaborations, cross-sharing of ideas, whether we're talking about You know, like even from basic stuff like wine, like local regional wines or beers, or to, you know, the local regional food. You know, we do a lot of workshops also inside our hotels. Some of our hotels even have farms, you know, in them. And then, you know, we basically do the farmer market, you know, all these.

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81. 11:12
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Is this part of your culture also to collaborate? Because in Germany, I'm just thinking about sometimes, yeah, you don't want to work with someone Because you always see him as competitor.

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82. 11:23
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, so no, I mean, yeah, because for us, you know, like, I mean, we, we, the way we see hospitality, right, it's like, you know, hospitality, what it is, is like it's a platform, you know. And, and, and, and I think this is something that is really your marketplace, huh? Exactly, exactly, you know. And, and, and I remember, you know, I mean, obviously, because, you know, like, I mean, even since the day of, you know, like, let's say, like, when my grandmother was still managing the hotel, like, everybody used to come into the hotel.

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83. 11:49
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Did your grandfather help her or no?

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84. 11:51
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    No, he was actually in the civil servants, so completely different, different business.

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85. 11:56
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Really powerful woman.

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86. 11:58
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Yeah, yeah, especially back in the days. Yeah, yeah, back in the days, I mean, like, yeah, back in the '40s and the '50s, it was like, um, completely something different. Um, so, um, um, I mean, yeah, so I mean, like, you know, like, I mean, hotel is basically where, you know, community comes together, you know. It wasn't just a place where you just go and you know, put your head to the pillow, you know, and spend a few hours there. But it really is, you know, this melting pot of culture, of community. So, you know, for us it's like, you know, then that's something that is actually truly wonderful. It's like, why can't we basically go back to that simply? So, you know, whether it's actually a luxury hotel brand, which is not under Dusit right now.

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87. 12:36
    Ronald M. Arndt

    So it's not the surrounding, it's also surrounding, but it's more of the experience.

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88. 12:38
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Exactly, exactly, you know, and So, I mean, so for us, whether it's like this kind of like the luxury hotels or to like even like mid-scale lifestyle hotels, we always do this type of activation. And it's also, I mean, for us as a business, how you can create traffic.

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89. 12:54
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Sure.

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90. 12:55
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Right. And for me, it's like, let's turn this square meters into revenue-generating space and then have the positioning, the brand activation innovations within our own assets.

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91. 13:08
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Is this also a way to appeal to the new generation, next generation, younger generation?

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92. 13:12
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Exactly, yes.

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93. 13:13
    Ronald M. Arndt

    So your generation, I think we are in the same age, you're 37, 38?

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94. 13:16
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    I am 37, yes.

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95. 13:17
    Ronald M. Arndt

    37, okay.

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96. 13:18
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    I'm gonna be 38 in a week.

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97. 13:20
    Ronald M. Arndt

    Okay, so I call you.

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98. 13:28
    Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

    Okay, yeah.

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99. 13:28
    Ronald M. Arndt

    So, and also, Dusit Cosmos, what is are you in charge at the moment?

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100. 13:35
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     So we're actually in charge of development.

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101. 13:38
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Expansion, development.

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102. 13:39
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Exactly, exactly. Maybe you want to go into more details in this so you can have your ad time as well.

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103. 13:43
     David (Dusit)

     Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, so I think, you know, we're focused right now on growing the business, obviously, right? And I think in Asia Pacific that's much easier because people know our brand. And when we start to kind of venture out into Europe and other places, then it's, you know, it's a bit more of a challenge. But I think what's interesting with us And just the experience we've had last couple of years is that Thailand is the number one destination for tourists, right? So even when we get into locations in Europe or we get into locations in Africa or Middle East, they all know our brand, they love our brand, they've stayed in our hotels in Thailand. So we have that bit of a connection. Yeah. So our job is to really export our brand to new markets this year. Build on those markets where we're very strong in Asia Pacific, but then also look at new opportunities outside of outside of our territories.

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104. 14:34
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Great. So what do you think of German tourists in Thailand, in your hotels?

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105. 14:38
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Great. Okay. I mean, I mean, I mean, exactly.

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106. 14:43
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Exactly.

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107. 14:43
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     I mean, I mean, obviously, like you know, like look, I mean, I mean, I mean, Germany has been one of the the the biggest, you know, like inbound market for us. Exactly, exactly. And I think like a lot of Germans. has been to Thailand, but not only has been to Thailand once or twice, but even sometimes 3 or 4 times. In fact, it's really strange. I actually just met somebody yesterday who's a German that has never been to Thailand, and I was even more surprised. I think back in the days I was like, oh, you've been to Thailand? It's like, oh wow, I'm surprised you've been to Thailand. I think in this day and age I'm like, wait, you have not been to Thailand? Where have you been in the last 10 years, 20 years? So yeah, and I think, you know, like, I mean, obviously, I think, you know, like, I mean, we have everything, right? I mean, you know what I mean? As a country, you know, we have, you know, the sand, the sea, all the surrounding, you know. And now, like, you know, like, as our country also develops more into, I would say, like, deeper level of tourism, you know, like, I mean, Now we're not just only just selling the sun and the sand and the sea anymore, but we are actually— and it's funny because it's all like start with the letter S. Now we're looking at how can we promote ourselves, our country in a much more deeper ways into spirituality, sustainability, serenity, all these things that is becoming— because I think the new generation of travelers, they want to look at a deeper deeper into that journey. It's not just about the physical journey anymore, but it's also like the inner journey as well. And I think as a country, I think we also provide a lot of that.

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108. 16:27
     Ronald M. Arndt

     So I think tourism changed the nation, the culture a lot in Thailand since your grandfather started 70 years ago.

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109. 16:35
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah, I mean, pre-COVID, Bangkok was actually one of the most visited cities on the planet. I mean, you know, we basically have as much— I mean, we had 40+ million visitors in 2019, you know. I mean, we basically matched the likes of London, Paris, New York, but, you know, with 1.5 airports.

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110. 16:57
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah.

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111. 16:58
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     So, um, so yeah, so we keep ourselves busy.

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112. 17:01
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah. Um, what are your main topics? I would say, so, uh, I think your grandfather started the company, uh, your father took over as CEO for a long time. What do you want to bring, to put into the business? What are your sustainability as well? It's to go deeper, of course, as you said.

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113. 17:20
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah, so our focus is very, very much on sustainability.

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114. 17:24
     Ronald M. Arndt

     International, of course, to go global as well.

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115. 17:26
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Exactly, exactly. I mean, our focus is very much on wellness. I mean, we have basically wellness programs throughout all of our hotels. You know, we— I mean, this is something that is really, really important, sustainability, of course. You know, for me, like, you know, like, look, as a hotel developer, right, we can just also say that, you know what, what is our aim in life? What is our target? You know, we can go from—

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116. 17:51
     Ronald M. Arndt

     What is the target of your generation?

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117. 17:52
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah, exactly.

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118. 17:53
     Ronald M. Arndt

     I mean, third generation owner.

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119. 17:55
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     I mean, for us, you know, like, we can basically just go on from like, oh yeah, we have 60 hotels now. Yeah, you know, yeah, we're small company, but I mean, yeah, okay, fine. In the next few years, we'll probably have 100 hotels. But then what's next? 200 hotels? Great. 300 hotels?

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120. 18:08
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Fine.

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121. 18:09
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     But then, like, how can we make the bigger positive impact to the community? So this is why, as a company, we very, very much heavily invested in education as well, because we really believe— actually, my grandmother founded our hotel school, which is actually the first hospitality school in Thailand in 1995. So it's actually been, you know, this year is the 30th year anniversary, you know, because she also believed that, you know what, to have— I mean, for the industry to have a sustainable future in tourism, you know, we need to have, you know, strong, I would say, talents, right? And human capital. This is something that's so important for us. So within our own DNA, within our own culture, you know, We want to also see how we can basically further develop that. I mean, a lot of our education, I would say, curriculums is also very, very much attached to the hotel's operations. And this is something that we want to continue further doing here.

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122. 19:07
     Ronald M. Arndt

     So you already have an impressive portfolio now in Thailand and around. Let's talk a bit about your activities overseas, in Europe especially, or in Germany. looking for. So how can— perhaps there's someone in the audience.

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123. 19:22
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     I mean, I mean, look, I mean, like, like I said, I mean, like, we, you know, we actually entered, you know, entered back into Europe as a, you know, as a continent. You know, this year we opened our first hotel in Europe, in Greece, you know, and we are very, very proud that we want to basically use this, you know, as a springboard for the next step. Okay, so I mean, you know, I mean, for us Yes, Germany is obviously one of the most important markets for us, but we also want to look further afield as well, whether it's the German-speaking region or whether it's in France, it's in Italy, it's in Spain, for example. I mean, I would love to have something in Spain on a personal level too because I love Spanish food massively, and I'm actually learning how to speak Spanish right now.

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124. 20:09
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah.

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125. 20:10
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     hopefully I can go there and put my work into practice. But yeah, but I mean, like, but to be honest, like, I think, I mean, you know, but even in Eastern Europe, right? I was in Poland 2 days ago in Warsaw, you know, looking at a few opportunities. So I mean, we really, you know, we really feel that we can bring something unique.

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126. 20:29
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah, I think so too.

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127. 20:30
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah, the whole high hospitality, you know, like something a little bit, you know, that is quite exotic, something that is You know, like that is obviously people, you know, may not have experience here before, and I'm sure we can bring a lot of value proposition.

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128. 20:44
     Ronald M. Arndt

     So you're more looking for leisure destinations or city or doesn't matter?

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129. 20:49
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Both. I mean, actually, so I mean, in terms of our portfolio, we very much split 50/50, you know, like half of our portfolio is actually city, you know, locations, business hotels, you know, whether we're talking about Bangkok, you know, Dubai, Abu Dhabi. But we also have a lot of leisure hotels as well. We were talking about the Maldives, you know, in Thailand, in Kyoto, for example, so, you know, in Japan. So yeah, so we are very, very, very much, you know, mixed across the board. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And actually, you know, I mean, we also have another subsidiary of ours. We have this company called Elite Heavens, but this is all very, very, very much just focused on leisure. So Elite Heavens is actually the largest villa management company in Asia. We have also about 300 villas, luxury villas that we also manage under our portfolio as well.

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130. 21:38
     Ronald M. Arndt

     So I mentioned that you always wanted to work in the company, Dusit, or was there any—

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131. 21:45
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Not always.

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132. 21:46
     Ronald M. Arndt

     No, not always?

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133. 21:46
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Not always, yeah.

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134. 21:47
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Okay, I mean, because that's the problem sometimes, especially with smaller family-run hotels in Germany, that the next generation doesn't want to take over because It's a lot of work.

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135. 21:56
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     I mean, when I graduated, I became a banker.

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136. 21:59
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Life could be easier.

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137. 22:00
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yes, I mean, so I was in finance for 3 years, and obviously that was a very, very difficult time because when I graduated in 2007, for example, that was a global financial crisis, the subprime crisis. I remember starting my first job as an analyst I mean, it's a stock brokerage firm in Bangkok. That was basically the week that Lehman Brothers and all these guys were coming down. So, it wasn't a really good experience. I mean, it was a great experience, by the way. Sorry, let me take it back. It was a great experience for me to see all those things unraveled. But then after a while, I'm like, I need a bit of creativity and how I can go on about doing my job as well.

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138. 22:48
     David (Dusit)

     Yeah.

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139. 22:49
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     That's why I made a switch. So yeah, and you know, I mean, it's been great, 16, 17 years so far.

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140. 22:55
     Ronald M. Arndt

     So okay, yeah, yeah. Are you married?

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141. 22:56
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     I am, yes. Yeah, yep, yeah, yeah, I am. Yeah, and I've got a baby son, 3 years old.

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142. 23:01
     Ronald M. Arndt

     3 years old?

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143. 23:02
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah.

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144. 23:02
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Okay, so I have 2 sons, 2 and 4. So nice, amazing.

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145. 23:06
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     2 and 4, beautiful.

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146. 23:08
     Ronald M. Arndt

     A lot of work. Yeah, but I'm always looking forward to be home.

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147. 23:12
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah, exactly.

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148. 23:13
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Back home today.

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149. 23:13
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Exactly. Yeah, I can't wait to go back home. tomorrow too. But I'll miss the wise words.

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150. 23:18
     Ronald M. Arndt

     And, but yeah, how did you have any mentors during your career so far? Or where do you get your creativity from, your inspiration?

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151. 23:32
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     You know, I mean, I do. Yeah, I do. I do. I actually do have a lot. I mean, everybody really, you know, I mean, I love learning so much.

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152. 23:41
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah, I really understand.

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153. 23:41
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah, I mean, like, I mean, I get I get inspiration from everywhere, from all facets of life, you know, like for me, like, and this is one of the most wonderful things about humanity is that, you know, you can continuously learn. I mean, it's also important that you also continue to unlearn as well.

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154. 24:02
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah.

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155. 24:02
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Because when you unlearn, then you can start making space for, you know, more things to come, you know, like more incoming. So for me, it's all about letting go, letting go of your, I guess, ego at the same time, but then try to be a sponge, try to absorb things. And I learned that in all my facets of life. Even with him, I'm like, I ask him like 30, 40 questions a day. I'm like, hey, can we do this? Can we do that? For me, it's great, but it's also important to to, you know, to be able to make, you know, articulate decision as well, right? I mean, it's— and I think making decisions, look, sometimes you're going to get mistakes. That's normal. That's a part of life. But how do we learn from those mistakes?

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156. 24:51
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Sure.

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157. 24:52
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     And not to just hold on to it, you know, but learn from them, but, you know, let it go. And then—

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158. 24:58
     Ronald M. Arndt

     And how do you calm down from time to time?

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159. 25:02
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Or how do you—

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160. 25:03
     Ronald M. Arndt

     is there something in your culture?

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161. 25:05
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah, I mean, I actually It's quite interesting. I started doing a lot of meditation. I think meditation is probably one of the most, I would say, important activities that I think anyone can do. And again, I'm not linking meditation to religion in any way, shape, or form, by the way. I mean, for me, meditation is really also about spirituality, which anybody can practice, but it's just really about pausing. Yeah.

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162. 25:32
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Pausing it.

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163. 25:33
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     And it's about connecting with yourself. So I actually became a Buddhist monk last year for about 5 weeks, and I went into the jungle in Thailand, and that's how I learned how to meditate. And again, I mean, for me, I think this is something that whether you're a Buddhist monk or not a Buddhist monk or any religion actually, I mean, even I believe Christianity, I think you can There's just so much of self-reflection within the nuance in, I think, each of the culture. And if we have time to maybe take a break from everything that's going on, this is like one of the worst things.

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164. 26:11
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah, one of the tough things.

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165. 26:12
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Then I think we can all find peace within ourselves. And I think that's the most wonderful thing.

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166. 26:18
     Ronald M. Arndt

     We only use it for business most of the time, but other people—

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167. 26:21
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     I'm not so sure. I mean, look, I completely detach myself from all the social media. Yeah, like, you know, I'm not on Facebook, I'm not on Twitter, I'm not on— I'm not on X, that's what we call it now. I'm not on TikTok or anything. I mean, I still have Instagram, but I mean, I only have Instagram, so then that's the only way that I can check what my marketing teams are doing.

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168. 26:43
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah, yeah, sure.

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169. 26:44
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     So, but even that is like, it's still, you know, like this Pandora box, you know, sometimes.

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170. 26:50
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah, but wouldn't it be a good idea to be a kind of personal brand or to become a personal brand? A personal brand, you know, to be— there are other entrepreneurs, Richard Branson, Elon Musk, as you mentioned.

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171. 27:04
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah.

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172. 27:04
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Wouldn't it be an idea for you just to be a— to try to be a big personal brand, to develop one in order to develop Dusit here overseas, you know?

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173. 27:14
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah, for me, on a personal level, like, no, I mean, on a personal level, I would really like to be—

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174. 27:20
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Are you on the social media channels or not at all?

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175. 27:21
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     No, like I said, I'm only on Instagram. And then that's just really just to check how the marketing teams are doing in our properties. But otherwise, no. I mean, like, I think, yeah, I think for me it's just become, you know, you just become a product, you know. A product, yeah. And then I don't think that's helpful in any way. And I do feel even sometimes a bit sad and a bit sorry for the future generation that with all this AI and all these engineers that works in all these social media and tech platform and their role, their job is really to see how they can use your attention as their commodity. These future generations, they have no chance. Almost, you know, it's everywhere. It's like all this, you know, it's marketing, like, you know, like on the go 24/7.

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176. 28:21
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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177. 28:21
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     And for me, like, it's, um, I think, I think that's, that's quite dangerous. But by the way, that's another topic beyond this now. It's just getting a little bit too deep maybe.

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178. 28:30
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Oh, the Hotel Podcast is also totally to, yeah, to learn more about brands.

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179. 28:35
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     I love it, I love it, I love this conversation.

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180. 28:37
     Ronald M. Arndt

     To learn more about the people behind. About you both guys. So what would you probably be if you weren't in the hospitality industry? What do you think? What would your profession, your job, what would it be? Okay, you answer it, David.

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181. 28:50
     David (Dusit)

     A chef. Am I right? A chef, yeah.

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182. 28:53
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     A chef, yes.

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183. 28:55
     David (Dusit)

     See, you can't take the passion out of him when it comes to food and beverage, right?

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184. 28:59
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah.

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185. 28:59
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     No, I mean, I think you're also the same, right?

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186. 29:01
     David (Dusit)

     I'm exactly the same way. If I wasn't in the hotel business, I would have a bakery somewhere or a restaurant somewhere. We're both kind of passionate Yeah, exactly.

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187. 29:10
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     So I think this is also why, you know, like, I think, um, we, you know, we get along well. But I mean, for me, like, cooking is like, um, it's like meditation in a way, you know. Yeah, the good thing with cooking is that you, you know, you can let go of this.

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188. 29:22
     David (Dusit)

     Yeah, exactly.

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189. 29:22
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     So I think that's such a— Get stoned if you cook. Exactly, yeah. So, um, yeah, so I mean, I love cooking so much, especially cooking with fire as well, by the way. Like, um, I have like an outdoor kitchen at home And that's all it is. Sometimes, I mean, I make the whole meal without using gas and electricity. I just love cooking with fire.

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190. 29:41
     Ronald M. Arndt

     So, okay, yeah, okay, it's very therapeutic, you know, and it's also an experience, huh?

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191. 29:47
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Exactly. Yeah, and it's something that you kind of feel that you're like, that you're in control, but then you're not in control, which is also, by the way, what life is all about, you know, because with fire, anything can happen, you know. I mean, But it's, yeah, for me, like, it's very therapeutic.

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192. 30:04
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah, yeah. Oh, we also have a big garden in Stuttgart, so where I'm coming from, and I really like to light on the fire, you know, campfire.

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193. 30:13
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     I mean, the only issue that I have is that, you know, I mean, it's always summer in Thailand and the temperature is always 30 degrees, so I'm always in front of the fire at 30 degrees, you know. But I'm kind of used to it now.

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194. 30:24
     Ronald M. Arndt

     So you said you will come to to Greece. Yeah, yeah. Would you call it Dusit as well, or are there any other brands you— Yes, you would bring over?

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195. 30:32
     David (Dusit)

     Yeah, sure. No, so, so we— so the, the property that we open in, in Greece is, uh, is under our Dusit Suites brand. Um, but, but I think, I think the interesting thing, and I, and I think thanks to, uh, uh, Khun Champ, is that we've, we've spent the last 2 or 3 years really building out our brand portfolio. So we have, we have brands now on the mid-scale lifestyle segment all the way up to luxury wellness retreat brand. So I think for Europe, we've got something for every market, for every location, every type of product. So I think we're pretty open to bring all of our brands out here, really.

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196. 31:03
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah. What's about digitalization in your company? So is it something only for the younger generation, or is it part of your DNA? Because it's so amazing, it's so interesting to hear because you're a young entrepreneur, young owner of the company.

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197. 31:19
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     I think, you know, like, I mean, You can really live it.

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198. 31:21
     Ronald M. Arndt

     You can do it all.

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199. 31:21
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     As far as hospitality goes, right, I mean, we— yes, we believe in both the high-tech and the high-touch. You know, both are very, very important for us.

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200. 31:32
     Ronald M. Arndt

     High-tech, high-touch, I like it.

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201. 31:33
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     You know, and for me, I think technology is great. You know, it's there to make your life easier, but it's not a means to an end. You know, I mean, I always say to the team.

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202. 31:46
     Ronald M. Arndt

     That doesn't make the difference.

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203. 31:47
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah, I mean, I mean, yeah, I mean, but yeah, so for me it's like, you know, like, yes, leverage technology as much as we need to. Yeah, but don't fall in love with it too much because at the end of the day it's a tool. Yeah, right. I mean, we now— I mean, one of our mid-scale brands, Asai Hotels, which is a hotel that I founded in 2020.

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204. 32:07
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah, was a separate company.

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205. 32:10
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     I mean, at the beginning, at the beginning it was separate.

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206. 32:13
     Ronald M. Arndt

     But then it was your own project at the beginning.

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207. 32:16
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah, exactly. But then, but then, but then, but then, yeah.

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208. 32:17
     Ronald M. Arndt

     So it's also a good way to start into the family business, huh? To have an own idea.

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209. 32:22
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     I mean, yeah, but then, but then, I mean, it was funded by Dusit. We wanted to have something that is actually quite different. You know, I asked our current CEO, which is, you know, this lady that I hugely admire, you know, she's, she actually said, you know, because actually she's actually from the tech background. She was the head of IBM in Asia Pacific. She's basically been in tech all her life, and then she basically kind of converts into this hospitality lady that she is today. But she still comes with a lot of mentality from back in her days, and she's like, if we cannot disrupt the company from inside out, let's do it from outside in. So that's why she basically gave it to us And it was something that, you know, me and actually my wife, you know, who's, you know, an architect, a designer, and now she's a creative director basically of the organization.

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210. 33:17
     Ronald M. Arndt

     You know her from your childhood, I think.

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211. 33:19
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Exactly, exactly. Yeah, so we basically came together and then we said, you know what, okay, let's set up a new hotel company, a new platform, do it as a startup, and then let's see how we can basically, you know, disrupt, you know, our organization. Our organization has been around for a very, very long time already. We obviously as a company, we keep on innovating ourselves, but then we also see how we can do it in other ways as well. And this is where all this, a lot of these initiatives, you know, so we are basically the first platform that said, you know what, let's have all these initiatives about, you know, about, you know, the community management. And we actually brought that into our site hotel first, and then we started to expand it into the rest of other Dusit Hotels. Things like, you know, kind of like self-checking in, checking out, and stuff like this.

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212. 33:59
     Ronald M. Arndt

     We We also started off the idea of having a speedboat a little bit.

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213. 34:02
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Exactly, yeah. And it's going to like, you know, like all the backend stuff. Okay, you know what, let's begin a new, you know, era with, you know, a new PMS system, for example. You know, so, you know, let's test this with this baby here because it's easier than to test it with the more older, you know, more clunkier legacy hotel, for example. So, you know, so we did a lot of new initiatives, you know, that actually came out from A lot of wellness initiatives also came out from that. A lot of sustainability kind of angle approach also came out from that. We became, we started our first plastic-free hotel also from an Offsite hotel, and then we also integrated into the thing. So, I mean, it's been a very, very eye-opening experience. Obviously, opening or launching the hotel in the middle of COVID was not easy, probably the worst time to launch a hotel brand when everything's locked down.

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214. 34:52
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah.

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215. 34:52
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     But that also gave us a lot a of lot of, you know, I mean, jumpstart on a lot of new initiatives that we wouldn't have otherwise been able to do now too.

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216. 35:00
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Also, what are the lessons from COVID So that's the lesson from COVID I mean, I'm still learning about it to this day actually. I know the lessons, you know, in Europe or in Germany from COVID but—

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217. 35:13
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah, I mean, look, I mean—

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218. 35:15
     Ronald M. Arndt

     I think in Germany there was a problem for people because they all left the hospitality industry. Yeah, okay, so this is something very, very quick, and we don't get them back.

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219. 35:25
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Exactly, this is something that we're also facing in Thailand.

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220. 35:28
     Ronald M. Arndt

     In general, or only during COVID or is it an interesting sector to work in or not?

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221. 35:34
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Exactly, yeah, but it's also something that, you know, it exponentially accelerated.

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222. 35:42
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Accelerated, same as here.

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223. 35:44
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     And I mean, we saw that trend is kind of going down anyway, which is weird because Thailand as a country, we always see it as like the land of smile, the land of hospitality. People love being in the service industry, and then COVID happens, and then boom. It's like, why did all people go?

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224. 36:03
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Everything stopped.

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225. 36:04
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Exactly. So now it's all about— and this is something that, look, I think it's both macro, but it's also micro. Same time. I think also as an industry, we also didn't do ourselves a favor. We shot ourselves in the foot because we created this type of labor market that is not adaptable to the needs of the future generation at all. So the way how we basically aspire people, inspire people, the way how we basically manage, you know, the new generations, or we needed to get rid of all these things, all these hierarchies, all this inflexibility, and, you know, and see how we can put in more creativity, you know, into the workspace. So then, you know, people— and it's a lot about empowerment as well.

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226. 36:58
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Empowerment, see them as co-entrepreneurs as well.

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227. 37:01
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Exactly.

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228. 37:01
     Ronald M. Arndt

     You know, or to have— yeah, I mean, how everyone is a host.

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229. 37:05
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Exactly.

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230. 37:05
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Feels as a host. Exactly.

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231. 37:07
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     And make them feel proud. I mean, one of the things we also did at our hotels is that I said to the team, you know what, you're not just an ambassador of the hotel, you're the ambassador of your city, of your destination, of your culture. And we actually— so every time that we open an Althoff Hotel, we have this thing which is called Althoff Local Day, where we basically do this team building. We give everybody budget, and we basically do this gamification where we get people to actually go into the neighborhood and go and experience the local culture. We could literally give them budget to go to these cafes. And we did a lot of research before, and we basically give you kind of quiz questions, like go and ask how long has this There's a cafe next to our hotel that's been there for like 120 years and nobody knows about it. So we would basically give them all these pointers and then let them actually go out. We want them to actually feel proud to represent, because I think that also comes with ownership, comes with accountability, and it comes with, in a small way, self-motivation.

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232. 38:23
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Self-motivation.

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233. 38:24
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     something that's really, really important. So, so yeah, so I think we need to, as an industry, we need to also change the way that we do things as well. Yeah.

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234. 38:32
     Ronald M. Arndt

     So now if you're opening up your, your first properties in Europe, I think it will be very interesting to bring over your, your own people from Thailand. Yes, this will be the plan, I think.

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235. 38:43
     David (Dusit)

     I think it makes sense. Yeah, if you, if you're trying to implement certain elements of Thai hospitality which are very specific, so the way we do wellness, the way we do F&B, you have to bring that expertise here, right? And I think too, if you want to provide that authentic experience, it's really difficult to do that without having those team members here.

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236. 39:02
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Nice.

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237. 39:04
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah, but I think that's another big USP.

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238. 39:07
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Yeah. And I think, yeah, so for us, we need to train more people. And I mean, that's what we're doing. We continuously, in terms of our education division, we're continuously coming up with, let's say, like a fast-track program to get people into the industry faster. We have kind of like our core program as well that is really much like a formal higher education. You go through all these degree programs and some of this, but also, but I think now, I think the industry needs it more than ever. The future generation needs it more than ever. Is it how can we basically get and basically do this fast-track program, accelerate them? get them into the job market faster, but then do it in a way that they can— it allows them to have the accessibility to come back also into the education system if they want to, if that's also their aspiration and their motivation to further. So, I mean, as an education division, we play around with the credits a lot, how people can collect the credits. So, I think for us it's something that also It's quite important as well.

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239. 40:12
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Yeah, yeah. I thank you so much. It was so interesting to learn more about you guys, about Dusit as well. I want to invite you to be a regular guest on the Hotel Podcast. So let's see this as a big update 2023. And let's see again in 2024, perhaps already in one of your properties. here in Europe. This would be nice.

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240. 40:38
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Or you come over with your family to Thailand.

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241. 40:41
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Or like this.

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242. 40:43
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     And then we show you our hospitality.

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243. 40:48
     Ronald M. Arndt

     Why not? Okay, deal. Thank you, David. Thank you both, guys.

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244. 40:52
     Siradej "Champ" Donavanik

     Thank you so much.

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245. 40:52
     Ronald M. Arndt

     And have a nice time here in Germany. Thank you. Thank you. Cheers.

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